Fear is a Liar w/ Michelle Anhang, Grief Coach

Updated: Feb 25, 2021

Adrienne MacIain 0:01

Hi everyone! Welcome to the That's Aloud podcast. I'm your hostess, Adrienne MacIain, and today we have Michelle Anhang. Please, Michelle, introduce your wonderful self.

Michelle Anhang 0:12

Hi, well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I was just saying how excited I am to be here. So I guess I'm Michelle Anhang, I am in Toronto, Canada. And I am a Certified Professional coach. And I specialize in working with individuals and families living with mental health challenges as well as those moving forward after loss.

Michelle Anhang 0:41

Should I just keep going or

Adrienne MacIain 0:44

So I imagine you know a lot about grief.

Michelle Anhang 0:47

I do. Yes.

Adrienne MacIain 0:50

So let's dive into that a little bit deeper.

Michelle Anhang 0:53

Okay. I had a feeling we were gonna dive in.

Adrienne MacIain 0:56

Yeah, absolutely. So I know that you are pretty comfortable with telling your grief story. But I want to, if I can, just go a little bit deeper than you usually talk about.

Adrienne MacIain 1:10

Let's start with where did that start for you? What was the loss that started this?

Unknown Speaker 1:15

Yeah, so the loss was losing my husband 14 years ago. I was 34, and he died by suicide after losing his battle to severe mental illness. He had bipolar disorder and a form of schizophrenia that was only diagnosed a couple of years before his death. And, through the process of trying to figure out the medications, which weren't working and everything else, he essentially lost hope.

Unknown Speaker 1:50

Just one moment. It sounds to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, like you started to to lose him before that. Am I hearing that correctly?

Michelle Anhang 2:01

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For the last couple of years of his life he was not the man that I married, that I knew. We met each other when we were eight. We grew up in the same community. Yeah, yeah. We started dating at 18, so highschool sweethearts, and know each other inside and out. And yeah, but the last couple of years...

Adrienne MacIain 2:27

It's like this new person. So can you find an example? Like an anecdote or something that might illustrate what that difference was? Where that change was?

Unknown Speaker 2:39

Yeah. So I can think of particularly one period of time, this was in the very beginning after the diagnosis, and they were trying to find the right medications for him. And I say medications because those of us who are familiar with severe mental illness know it's not just one drug that you take and it makes you better. It's usually a cocktail, and they have to figure out the right medications and the right dosages. And so, you know, before he got really sick, like I think the illness was there for a long time, he just did a really good job of hiding it. But the man that I knew and fell in love with and was totally in love with was the kindest, gentlest soul. He was the guy that was always smiling. He was super charming, but in a very sweet and sensitive way. You know, he was like, he was the guy that all the women were friends with because he was so in touch with his sensitive side. And just really a loving man. And one of the first medications that they tried was Prozac, which generally people find kind of numbs them out. With him, it had the opposite effect, and it actually made him very aggressive. And almost like, violent, thankfully not to me or my kids, but you know, he was punching holes in walls and he would even punch brick walls. And you know, the pain wasn't it, but it was just like, 'Who are you?' We were scared. Yeah, my kids were pretty little but he just, you know, he had a lot of paranoia. And then the anger, and he was convinced that we were out to get him or somebody was out to get him. And I remember one specific incident with my older son who I think must have been about, he was about five at this time. And he was in the kitchen. We were all sitting down having dinner. And my son was by the fridge and my husband said 'Oh, can you pass me,' I don't know, he was like 'Can you get me the mustard from the fridge?' And yeah, my son's looking and he's like 'I don't see it. I don't think we have any.' This is, like, a little kid. And my husband turned around and, like, freaked out. He's just like "Are you trying to mess with me?" Of course, I was like, whoa. So like, yeah, a complete, and it's like, hey, first of all, he's five and maybe he doesn't see it. And second of all, it's just mustard. So yeah, those kinds of things were were going on. Thankfully, we got him off those meds really quickly. But you know, just a progression of a lot of those kinds of isolated incidents that were very unnerving.

Adrienne MacIain 5:34

It's very scary to see what a thin thread kind of connects us to the person that we think of ourselves as, right? And how easily our personality can shift and change, especially when our brain chemistry is off. Right?

Michelle Anhang 5:54

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Adrienne MacIain 5:55

Absolutely. Yeah. So let's take it a little bit forward now. So, your husband has died? And then then what happened for you?

Michelle Anhang 6:07

So I have to go tell his parents. And yeah, you know, I think well, that and having to tell my kids were extremely painful. But you know, and I was, I was still in shock. So I didn't feel it right away. But essentially, as the family was starting to gather, you know, because we were calling the immediate family and and a few close friends, and they were all coming over. And one of the family members turned to me at one point was like, 'What are we going to tell people?' First, it was like, Huh, and then it was like, Oh, yeah, what are we going to tell people? You know, and I say, like, I take full responsibility too. You know, I, you know, there were so many layers of shame. I mean, I came from a shame-driven home and then married into a family with shame, because that's just what, we marry what we know. And you know, and there was, you know, my husband had his shame about his illness, and we were keeping that a secret. And then it was like, ya know, how do we explain a suicide? And how do I tell my kids because they're seven and four? I don't understand how we did this, so how are they going to understand? And all the feelings and the thoughts around did I somehow do something wrong? Did I miss something? Did I not see something? How might this be my fault? I don't know and I can't deal with this. So yes, let's say it was an accident to give me time to process all of this, because, you know, there was so much. And I'm imagining that this family member felt their own guilt and fear and wonder and shame too, of just, like, could we have prevented it? And what did we miss? And so we told everybody, my kids the world, that he died in an accident.

Adrienne MacIain 8:18

That is a big burden to carry.

Michelle Anhang 8:20

Oh, yeah.

Adrienne MacIain 8:21

Yeah, yeah. So when did that, when did that change? When did that shift? And you started to tell the truth?

Michelle Anhang 8:30

Almost 11 years later. It was a long time to carry that. And yeah, it had a huge impact on me. That secret was not like, you know, it's not something that you just kind of put out of your mind and remember once in a while. It became a part of my my daily life. You know, the isolating myself, not letting myself get close to people because I didn't want to have to go into what happened. Being afraid of people; it's like, oh, you know, the first question would always be like, when they know I was single, it's like, oh, so how long have you been divorced? And it's like, I'm not divorced, I'm widowed. And then in my head, I'd be like, Oh, please don't ask me how. 'Cause I don't want to lie again, like, I try to think of myself as a good person, but I'm carrying this huge lie, and I'm lying to every new person I'm meeting and I'm lying to my closest friends. Like, only a handful of people, like my close friends and neighbors. And I have friends from high school that did not know the truth. And so I felt like a fraud. And so, you know, just really isolating myself, shutting down. And then the shame of that too, to compound everything. And, and then the anxiety that I had as well of just always worrying that somebody is going to find out, someone's going to tell my kids, it's going to slip out somehow. I'll be called out for the fraud that I am, my kids are going to hate me, everyone will hate me. Yeah. So a lot of that, a lot of self loathing that goes with that, too. So, it's quite a burden.

Adrienne MacIain 10:14

Yeah, and I imagine too, you know, you tell a lie, and of course, you have to tell little lies to cover up the first lie. And because you're lying about something, you feel this immediate guilt response, like you're covering up something naughty, like you're covering up something bad that you did. And so that compounds and hooks into that original feeling that you described of What did I do wrong here? How did I miss something? How did I not save him?

Michelle Anhang 10:43

Right. Yeah. It's almost creating the shame. Where, you know, there wasn't enough.

Adrienne MacIain 10:50

It's the complete cycle.

Michelle Anhang 10:54

Completely! And it was vicious, the vicious cycle.

Adrienne MacIain 10:57

Yes. Yes. And so when you started to tell the truth, how much of your fears actually came true?

Michelle Anhang 11:06

Oh, none of them.

Adrienne MacIain 11:08

Right? Not a single one.

Michelle Anhang 11:10

Not a single one. Yeah. It's so amazing.

Adrienne MacIain 11:14

Your kids don't hate you now. Your friends don't hate you now.

Michelle Anhang 11:18

Yeah, it was pretty wild. Like I say, you know, in the work that I do, I always say fear is a liar. And, and it really was, and it totally, I mean, it kept me from telling the truth for that long. But proving fear wrong was very liberating. And, you know, made me very happy.

Adrienne MacIain 11:45

Someone said, and I can't remember who this is, but they said 'Anxiety is basically just me coming up with conspiracy theories about myself.'

Michelle Anhang 11:52

Oh, I love that. It's so true!

Adrienne MacIain 11:57

Yeah, you just go to the most extreme like, ah - this might be!' And it's like, no, come on now, you have no evidence for that. That's beautiful. So, there's this turning point of when you started to tell the truth. And how did things start to change from there? How did that bring you to where you are now?

Michelle Anhang 12:17

So, it took a lot of personal development work for me and healing for me to actually be able to say it out loud. Like, I'm not gonna say that I woke up one day, and I was like, you know, what, I'm done with this. I wasn't. I was in a very dark place. And, you know, a place, I say it was like one of my rock bottoms, because there were a few.

Adrienne MacIain 12:43

I was just talking to someone else about that today. It's like, yeah, you think you've hit rock bottom, but then you're like, oh, there was more to go, okay.

Michelle Anhang 12:52

Right! It's a nasty cliff.

Adrienne MacIain 12:55

Exactly. It's like you have this realization, and so you think, oh, okay, things are gonna change now. But you may not have been all the way to the darkest part of that tunnel yet. And even though, you know, the light's there, and you're gonna get there, you still have to go through. There's no way out but through. And so sometimes, and often, even though we have that realization, sometimes the universe has to push us a little bit harder to take the action that needs to be taken to actually change things.

Michelle Anhang 13:29

Oh, a hundred percent.

Adrienne MacIain 13:29

It has to make you a little more uncomfortable, before you're willing to make those scary changes.

Michelle Anhang 13:33

I described my moment of just realizing I am in so much pain. I was around my 45th birthday, and I was like, I can't live the next half of my life in this much pain. I just I had enough. And I think that there's an Elizabeth Gilbert saying, and I've used it before, and I really should memorize it because I mess it up every single time. But it's like 'I've never seen anyone undergo a huge transformation without, before that, getting tired of their own bullshit.' And that's essentially it. So, I was just like enough, I get it, it's me. Like, I am perpetuating this. And I am a lso the one who can make things better. And so yeah, hitting a very dark place in my life that I just said, I need to heal all of this, right back to the childhood shame and the stories about myself and who I am. Up to that point in time, you know, this 45 year old woman who's you know, in a pretty crappy place in her life. And so yeah, I did the dark, dark shadow work, did a lot of trauma work to work through my PTSD around that. And then the first step was telling my kids because that's who I cared the most about knowing. The truth is, after I, you know, once they knew, no one else mattered, but it was my relationship with them that I cared the most about. You know, they were 18 and 15 at the time, and I told them over dinner. I mean, it was very well planned, it was also not a sudden thing. You know, I had my support people around, and I had started talking to a few people that I felt safe with saying, you know, this is what happened, and I think I'm ready to tell my kids. And so I had a pretty large support group from that point, you know, that were right there for me, knowing how big this was. We were actually being all being coaches, we were using zoom before the pandemic hit. So we actually had a zoom call the day before, where everyone pumped me up, and I was ready to go, and then another call after. So I was very well supported through this.

Adrienne MacIain 16:54

That's awesome.

Michelle Anhang 16:54

Yeah. And so I told my kids, with the fear that they may be angry and not want to talk to me, maybe never again, but very possibly not in, you know, just till they processed everything. And actually, that wasn't the case. I told them, I was very matter-of-fact, I said, you know, this is what happened, I wish I had done it differently, but I didn't. And I'm sorry, but here it is now, and I want you to know the truth moving forward. And they both took it really well. They just said, you know, both of them said that they wish they had known sooner, but they understood because they knew the family, like, you know, both sides of the family, and the shame that was there. And so they were very accepting. There was no yelling. It was actually really nice. Like, we were actually like, two teenage boys, and, I'm holding both of their hands through this conversation. It was really such a defining moment in our relationship. And they obviously had many questions. And I know, many people ask me, did they know, did they have a sense of it? They, neither of them thought that it was suicide. My older son said that he always had a feeling that that might not be the story, but he never thought it was suicide. He thought maybe there was something else. And my younger one said he realized something was up because he knew he didn't know a single detail about it. Because I never talked about it. And if anybody would say like, oh, 'What happened in the accident?' I wasn't going to start making stuff up. So I was just like, I don't want to go into the details.

Adrienne MacIain 17:36

I don't want to talk about it.

Michelle Anhang 17:59

Yeah, exactly, it's too painful.

Adrienne MacIain 18:02

Which is true.

Michelle Anhang 18:04

It's true.

Michelle Anhang 18:07

So yeah, and then from that point, I realized not too long after that I have this life experience, I have this story. And I can help people that are going through it now to hopefully not do it the way that I did. Or if they did to know, like, you can get out of that. And find freedom on the other side.

Adrienne MacIain 18:36

But let's talk for a minute about the things that you did right. Because you actually, I think there's a lot in here that you're not necessarily recognizing that you really did well. Actually, I do think there was an element of wanting to protect your kids, which is a really noble thing, absolutely. And I do think that once you decided, you know, this is enough is enough, I'm going to be brave, and I'm going to be vulnerable, you did exactly the right thing, which is you gathered support around yourself, which can be a really hard thing to do. To say I need help, I need support in this thing that I did. Nobody did this to me. I'm not a victim here. I created this situation, and I need your help to get myself out of it. And then you were able to accept that help. And you were able to really open up and be vulnerable enough to show your kids that you were sincere, this was authentic. You were able to listen to them, and hear about their experience of it, and answer their questions and really connect with them. I think that's really beautiful.

Michelle Anhang 19:47

Thank you. Yes, definitely.

Adrienne MacIain 19:51

Absolutely. So who do you think needs to hear this story?

Michelle Anhang 19:58

You know, it's interesting, because the more I talk about my story, the more people that I didn't think it would impact, it does impact.

Unknown Speaker 20:09


Michelle Anhang 20:11

You know, of course, the people who are living in any part of that situation that I was in, I want them to hear it, and to know that you can't, you know, it's not the end. It's not always going to be dark, that there is freedom and joy to be found on the other side of it. I know I've impacted people. Somebody shared with me once, after I did a talk, it was in-person talk on stage, they shared with me that they had had suicidal thoughts for a good part of their life, and never thought about the way it would impact their family. And in that particular talk, I went through a lot of the details of like, because my husband called me right before he passed away, just to say goodbye and say he loved me, and, you know, he thought this was the right thing to do. And so I spoke about that, and I spoke about the thoughts that were going on in my head, and how much I blamed myself, and this person said that it changed them after hearing that, because they never thought about the details of how it would impact their families. So anybody who is having suicidal thoughts, in a dark place, to know that. And again, you know, I was in my own dark places over those times, and there is a possibility for happiness. And really, anybody else who doesn't know a lot about mental illness, who doesn't have an understanding about suicide. One thing that I realized, like, you know, with, with Robin Williams, and many of the other people in the public sphere who have passed away, nobody heard all the details of what life was like with them before. And then it's kind of like the story ends with their suicide, and we don't hear about the impact on the family afterwards. So we just think of it as this one moment in time, it's a blip, and then it's over. But the grieving never ends. So I talk about it because I think people need to know this. And I want to end the stigma, like, enough of the stigma around mental health, it's like a dirty word and suicide. We all have varying levels of mental health, and particularly now, during the pandemic, people that did did not have the diagnosis, that otherwise might have considered themselves very mentally healthy, are being challenged. We all are. And so really, now is the time where we just have to say, like, okay, this is just like having a common cold, or the stomach flu or anything else, or anything bigger. You know, let's talk about it, let's educate people, let's not make it a secret, because people need to understand the suffering that the people around them are experiencing. And there's so much that we can do for people, you know. Obviously, everyone's on their own journey, but even just offering that little extra support, you know, the check ins, all those things, there are things we can do. So that's why I make it my mission to talk about it, because I think everybody can learn something from every single person's story.

Adrienne MacIain 23:46

Absolutely. And I think it's a real shame that we don't teach the tools for resilience, and for mental wellness, and self care in schools. I think these are things that, you know, emotional intelligence, and recognizing we are responsible for our own emotional life, and here are some tools to help you manage it. It would be huge.

Michelle Anhang 24:07

Yeah, so huge, I know. And I see our culture just medicates kids. And talking about schools, I mean, now both of my kids are in university, but in high school, it's like most of their friends were on something for either depression, anxiety, ADHD, or bipolar disorder. It is like those were the top four. But it just, you know, the statistics I don't think are accurate, I think they say like, 40%, and I'm like, no way. No way, it's way higher. And then those are the kids who are actually getting treatment for it. Then there's all the people that are not diagnosed, not getting any kind of treatment, not talking about it. So it's quite prevalent and I think you're so on point about the tools that we all need to learn to help take care of ourselves. And that's, yeah, that's part of the work that I do is empowering people with their mental health challenges and saying okay, you may have this, and you may be on medication. And I'm not anti-medication, I think there are times where it serves. For my own mental health challenges I was on medication at one point, because I couldn't function. And then I was able to go off of it, because I did create a very, you know, I had to change my lifestyle. Yeah. And that was, you know, I was very committed to doing that. But knowing that I was in control of it, it's not that it controlled me and this medication isn't working, because the meds don't do everything. So much of it is mindset. So much of it is lifestyle. I mean, just the one thing alone of like, are you getting enough sleep, that can make it or not, we're gonna get anxious and frustrated and irritable, or we're going to be depressed and exhausted and lethargic. You know, just that one thing alone, but there's so many other little things that we can do to empower ourselves.

Adrienne MacIain 26:14

Yeah, absolutely. So you've had so so many beautiful messages and lessons have come up in the course of our conversation so far. But I always like to give people a chance to kind of tie it up into a nice little bow and say 'What is the core message or takeaway that I want everyone to walk away from this with?'

Michelle Anhang 26:34

The core message is just make the decision and do it, because there's so much freedom, freedom on the other side of it. That really, for me, is the number one word.

Adrienne MacIain 26:50


Michelle Anhang 26:51

Yeah, freedom.

Adrienne MacIain 26:52

Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that. So now we're going to shift into the future. Okay? So I want you to close your eyes for a moment. Okay, take a nice deep breath. And as you exhale, you realize that all of your wishes, everything you've ever wanted has just come true. Your life is exactly as you always imagined it could be and should be. So I want you to just look around this life that you've created for yourself, this perfect, ideal, so-you life. You've become exactly yourself. There's nothing standing in your way, othing blocking you from being exactly you. And I want you to describe for me this amazing life that you now have.

Michelle Anhang 27:45

Hmm. So the first thing that came up was being on stage. And, you know, having thousands of people that I can talk and have an impact on and really just share the good stuff.

Adrienne MacIain 28:04

Yeah. So let's go a little deeper. What do you feel? You feel the lights on you? You hear the crowd talking a little bit, right? But then there's also that hush, that silence when you're about to speak. All eyes on you.

Michelle Anhang 28:17

Yeah. There's excitement, there's inspiration. Again, joy. The word is just the impact of just, you know, making a difference.

Adrienne MacIain 28:34

Yeah, I want you to see someone out in the audience who you really know that you have just made an impact on, you can see it in their face. You feel what that feels like.

Michelle Anhang 28:50

I'm feeling emotional.

Adrienne MacIain 28:53

Now, if there's a soundtrack here, like, as you're coming on stage, there's music playing, what's the what's the soundtrack? Is it a specific song or maybe just a genre?

Michelle Anhang 29:05

There was a song. I know it already because I play it and it's gonna make me cry. So there's the song from, what was that movie? The Circus? The greatest?

Adrienne MacIain 29:18

The Greatest Showmen?

Michelle Anhang 29:19

Yes. This is me.

Adrienne MacIain 29:20

This is me. Oh, I love that song. Wonderful.

Michelle Anhang 29:24

Yes. So I'm getting teary. Yes.

Adrienne MacIain 29:27

It's beautiful, I love that.

Michelle Anhang 29:29

So it's, it's that ownership of this is me, real and raw and beautiful. And I'm showing up as me and with with all the gifts that I was given to share with the world.

Adrienne MacIain 29:45

All right. So what happened just before this, so before you came on stage, before you got into this venue, where were you? What was going on?

Michelle Anhang 29:55

I was at my beach house.

Adrienne MacIain 29:57

Beautiful. Okay, I want you to go there for a moment. Okay, you're in your beach house, you're preparing for this amazing experience that you're about to have, putting together your thoughts. Where are you physically?

Michelle Anhang 30:12

I am in my office, which is a beautiful, fully windowed room overlooking the water. Actually, I have this picture on my vision board too, so it's quite clear. And I can picture, there's my living space behind me. So it's very open concept, very bright. My kids are there. And yeah, just feeling the expanse and the openness.

Adrienne MacIain 30:56

Beautiful. So, how did that home come to be? Think back in your memory. You found this home. You purchased it. What needed to happen for that to happen?

Michelle Anhang 31:09

My book needed to be written.

Adrienne MacIain 31:11

There we go. So you wrote this amazing book. Tell me about your book. How much do people love it?

Michelle Anhang 31:19

Oh, it's a bestseller?

Adrienne MacIain 31:20

A bestseller, of course it is.

Michelle Anhang 31:23

That's the good thing about dreams, of course it's a bestseller.Yeah, yeah, for years it's been on the bestseller list.

Adrienne MacIain 31:32

And it's having a huge impact. All right. Well, how did you get it out there? How did you how did you get people to see it in the first place? How did you help them find it?

Michelle Anhang 31:45

Interesting that we go there because I'm kind of in that space now.

Adrienne MacIain 31:48

Perfect, perfect

Michelle Anhang 31:49

Saying how am I writing my book. And it's a big question mark right now of how that's going to look.

Adrienne MacIain 31:55

And we don't have to define specifics. Just, I think there's a feeling there of you had an openness. ? You had an inspiration?

Michelle Anhang 32:04

Yes. The feeling is that I just, again, I put it out in the world. I just started talking about the book that I know I need to write. And I'm presently starting to do that, because I knew, I always knew what the book was in me. And I always said one day And lately, it's become apparent that the one day is today. And so how I see that journey unfolding is by speaking it into the world and telling people I'm beginning to write my book. And, being very well connected, and, you know, just having wonderful connections who all know different people who all want to help. The support came, the connections came, the networking came and all the right people showed up in my life saying yes, this was the book we were waiting for.

Adrienne MacIain 33:06

Absolutely. Was there a partner that you had to get this book out there, like a book midwife kind of person? Were you able to kind of do everything yourself, or was there someone else that you needed?

Michelle Anhang 33:17

Definitely a book midwife. One thing I've learned along my journey is there are people who love to do the things that I don't. And that I can't do, or they can do it so much better than me. So yes, 100% there is a book midwife, and I love that term.

Adrienne MacIain 33:41

I don't know if I made that up. But I love it.

Michelle Anhang 33:43

It's a great term. So yes, yes, that book midwife helped me birth it into the world. Yeah.

Adrienne MacIain 33:51

So just to recap this future story here, you're going to start to put this idea out into the world that's going to somehow lead you to this book midwife, who's going to really help you birth this book. That book is going to help you make the money that you need and make the connections that you need and create the meaning that you need to get to that next level, and have the things that you need to be able, that space that you need to be able to really create the thing that you really want to create. And be out there and getting this message directly to people in person. Does that sound right?

Michelle Anhang 34:29

Yeah, yeah. I love, I love being in person. I love feeling the energy of a room and that's something I miss a lot right now. But yeah, just yeah, feeling everybody else's energy and wisdom and all that good stuff, you know, I just drink it all up. It nourishes me.

Adrienne MacIain 34:52

That's beautiful. Anything else you want to add to this story or this vision? Anything else that's important that you have in this beautiful space that you've created that you want to tell me how that happened?

Michelle Anhang 35:11

I think part of it is the team that I created that helped me get to where I am. Not being, you know, a one woman show. Yeah. And and I feel like I already honor them and deeply appreciate them. Again, just knowing that there are, you know, like, Yes, I have this information and this story and this set of skills. And there are so many other people who also want to make an impact in the world and are just as excited as me and are bringing their own sets of talents and other good stuff. And so yeah, it's my people.

Adrienne MacIain 36:00

So what action could you take today toward creating that team?

Michelle Anhang 36:08

So, I've already started, actually, just last night, so it's so funny talking about this now.

Adrienne MacIain 36:17


Michelle Anhang 36:17

Totally. Yeah. So one thing that I knew that I wanted to do right now, particularly because I'm speaking so much more publicly, was to redo my website. And so just last night I hired somebody who's going to do my branding, going to do my website.

Michelle Anhang 36:42


Michelle Anhang 36:42

Yeah, 'cause I had done my own, you know, just one of those free ones that you create the templates, and it was great. And then I decided, you know what, it's time for a big girl website. That's actually what I messaged this person of, like, I'm ready for that. And we had a meeting and they just seem so right for me. And, and I also have worked with a copywriter who also just just gets me. And, you know, I said to her before, because she's done some work on the copy for the website, I said it's like you climbed into my brain and pulled my thoughts out, back on point. And so I feel like it's, you know, always being on the lookout, and I think the next step is finding that book midwife.

Adrienne MacIain 37:32

Yeah, absolutely.

Michelle Anhang 37:33

Yeah. That's definitely the next person on my team. Because I know these two other ones are gonna, you know, they're stuck with me, I love them already. And that's something about who I am too, that it's just as much the skill of what they do and what it looks like, but so much as who they are. And, you know, the connection that we have, and that we are aligned in our values and energetically. And, yes, I speak that language. And so, it's very much like I want, you know, because I want them to be part of that team for the long run. Yeah. Now, I'm putting it out there to the universe, your universe and mine. Book midwife, please call me if you hear this.

Adrienne MacIain 38:29

Well, you know what's funny? I'm a book midwife.

Michelle Anhang 38:41

Of course you are! This couldn't get any better. And I loved you from the moment I looked up your podcast, I was like, I love this.

Adrienne MacIain 38:52

I'm just, I'm glowing right now. This is wonderful. This is amazing.

Michelle Anhang 38:56

I am too! How awesome.

Adrienne MacIain 39:02

Alright. Now everyone listening, you can see the amazing power of putting yourself, allowing yourself to not limit yourself and think, oh, here's what's probable. Okay. But here's what's possible. Here's where I really want to get. And then just working your way back step by step to 'Well, I'm here right now. What's the next step to get me there?' And everyone can do that. And you, I know you're a coach, and so you have a vision board already. You probably listen to your song regularly. You put yourself emotionally in that place. And that is why you're already well on your way. And you're already having these synchronicities happening, like me showing up.

Michelle Anhang 39:50

Oh, cool.

Adrienne MacIain 39:52

I think I would love to help you birth your book. This has been amazing.

Michelle Anhang 40:00

This is beyond.

Adrienne MacIain 40:02

Right. Right? Yes. Ah, I'm loving Season Season Three so far. This is great. I know I'm on the right path. You know those moments where you're just like, yes, I found it! This is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Michelle Anhang 40:18

Yes, yes, I totally know.

Adrienne MacIain 40:22

Here it is! Fantastic.

Michelle Anhang 40:24

And this is the freedom, 'cause see how it's so easy, so easy!

Adrienne MacIain 40:30

Yeah, yeah, that wasn't work. That was wonderful. Wow.

Michelle Anhang 40:39

Thank the universe.

Adrienne MacIain 40:40

Well, you and I are going to talk more.

Michelle Anhang 40:42

Yes we are.

Adrienne MacIain 40:44

But let's tie this off for our audience. Where can they find you?

Michelle Anhang 40:50

They can find me on my website, michelleanhangcoaching.com. I'm also all over social media. Michelle Anhang Coaching on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube, and everywhere else Michelle Anhang. So please look me up. Please connect. Please friend me. And yeah, I'd love to hear from from everybody, anybody. I'd love to know if, you know, my story impacted you. And, yes, thank you.

Adrienne MacIain 41:22

Wonderful. Thank you so much for this.

Michelle Anhang 41:29

Thank you so much. I'm just, like, reeling right now.

Adrienne MacIain 41:30

I know, me too.

Michelle Anhang 41:31

I can't believe this, this is so cool.

Unknown Speaker 41:35

Alright, we'll stop right there.

Transcribed by Rebecca Lynn MacIain

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