Updated: Dec 31, 2020
Adrienne MacIain 0:01 Hey everyone, welcome to the That's Aloud podcast. This is your hostess, Dr. Adrienne MacIain, and today I am here with Jenny Harris. Jenny, please introduce yourself. Jenni Harris 0:13 Hi, everyone. First of all, thank you so much for inviting me onto your podcast. It's an absolute honor and privilege to be here. So, my name is Jenny Harris, and I, as you can probably tell from the accent, I am from England. And where do I start, I'm a former police officer, I was a sergeant for 27 years in policing. And I am married with two, I always go to say boys, but they're two men. My boys, see, I just did it again, my boys, 20 and 22. And I absolutely adore them. I currently, I am still in it, not a police officer anymore, but I am an investigator. So that's what I do for my full time job. That's what pays the bills. And then my business is in health and nutrition. So I work mainly and predominantly with women, helping them to look good, feel great, and show up as the best version of themselves every single day. And as it's October, it's October the first. So I don't know if it's the same in, I'm guessing this is a global awareness, but October is, certainly in the UK, it's Breast Cancer Awareness Month. And as we're here, and we are getting vulnerable, I'm going to share with you that I am a breast cancer survivor. So I am a year and about five months out of treatment. And I am super proud and very happy about that. Adrienne MacIain 1:53 Congratulations. Jenni Harris 1:55 Thank you. Adrienne MacIain 1:56 That is wonderful. So there's so much in there that I can't wait to unpack. But I will go ahead and ask you the question I always ask. So what's the story you're not telling? Jenni Harris 2:10 Oh, that is a great question. And do you know, I've never been asked that question. So what's the story that I'm not telling? Oh, dear. Okay, so this is going to be a little uncomfortable, 'cause I don't often say this out loud, this is something that I do tend to keep to myself. But one of my big goals, I'll start with my big goal and then work back from that. So one of my big goals, one of my big life goals is to own and run a retreat for women of domestic violence. And what drives that is that my mum was, she's no longer with us, but my mum was a long-suffering domestic violence sufferer. And I grew up seeing that. So I grew up watching that, I grew up, and I am my mum's only daughter and her eldest child in the UK. I have an older brother that lives in Jamaica. And I grew up with myself, obviously, I also have my two younger brothers, and I was the one that was, because back then we didn't have telephones in our house, we didn't have one, so you had to go out and use public telephone boxes. And I remember, for as long as I can remember running from the house to the telephone box to call the police to help my mum. And because there was shouting, fighting, abuse, which wasn't very pleasant. So the retreat that I want is for women who, not just to escape, I don't want a refuge, that's not what I want. What I want is a place where women can go once they've left that kind of ordeal, and they're on the road to recovery. Their place and the space I want to create for them, because there's a lot of stuff that goes with domestic violence and I'm not qualified to even talk about the reasons why, but what I do know is that if you don't deal with what attracted that in the first place, it repeats itself. So I want to have, the space I want to create for women, the place is going to be called Millie's Place. My mum's name is Millie so that's the name of the place I'm going to have. But the the idea is that they will go there to start that repair and that road to recovery. And they can come back once a year, annually for the rest of their lives. So I want there to be, like, mindset coaches to help with mindset, and personal growth coaches, and even some pampering and yoga meditation, that really kind of nice space where they can come and start to repair themselves, to become the best version of themselves, so they will no longer tolerate that type of behavior. Adrienne MacIain 5:31 That is so beautiful. As a survivor of domestic abuse myself, I deeply, deeply appreciate that. And I will say, you know, we know that leaving is just, like, step zero, you know. The real work then comes after that, because, like any addictive cycle, an abusive relationship is covering up some kind of pain that we are not facing. And so as soon as we leave, guess what, we're by ourselves with our pain, and then you have to look at it, and then you have to deal with it. Yeah.
Jenni Harris 6:11 Yeah, it's challenging. And I think, you know, I don't know. And I'm sure there's probably a lot of stuff that I need to unpack, but I think one of the reasons why I took the path to go into policing was to try and help. So as a child, I felt really helpless. So I think, I don't know, and I'm sure I probably could do with talking to somebody myself, but I think that's probably one of the reasons why I went down that path. And I have no doubt that seeing that behavior has very much shaped the person I am today, and not all of it is good. Adrienne MacIain 6:53 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just picturing little Jenny, you know, running to the phone box to call the police. You know, it's like, that's who you reached out for, to say help, help. And so I imagine that that is a big part of why you decided to go into policing, and why you do what you do now to help people not just to recover, but to thrive. Jenni Harris 7:19 A hundred percent. I think, you know, I've been here a long time, I've been here a few years, and the things that we have now definitely weren't around back then. And I, certainly in my early days of policing, and even, you know, going back when I first started policing, it's like 32 years ago. And so even 32 years ago, which doesn't seem, it sounds like a lot of numbers, it doesn't feel like a lot of numbers to me because I've lived it, but even the changes that have happened since then are virtually recognizable, so that the things that my mum had to, I guess, tolerate because women leaving wasn't the done thing, and there was nowhere for them to go. And women didn't have the level of independence, the level of support, the networks that they have now. Women didn't have that. And back then I knew that my mum really wanted to leave, but she didn't have anywhere to go. And she had three children, and we were all under, she had three kids under seven, eight. So where's she going to go? And there was, you know, the only option she was given was to go into a refuge, and she said I don't want to take my children there. So then you're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. And, you know, for a long time, and this is another part of the story, for a long time I was really angry at my mum. I was angry with her because I couldn't understand why she didn't just leave. I didn't understand that. I didn't understand why she would allow herself to be treated that way, and I always vowed that that was never going to happen to me. So, you know, it was hard. It was hard because I, you know, I saw her was weak. But I also know that my mum was, now I that my mum was one of the strongest women that I've ever known, that I ever met. And for her to have sacrificed, I guess, she sacrificed a lot, and I'm really grateful for that. Even though I couldn't see it at the time. You know, me and, I look at my brothers and I'm so proud of my mum because what she did, and one of the things that I know through experience is that that cycle of men abusing women just keeps going and going until someone breaks the cycle. Boys that grow up with abusive dads, they go on to abuse because that's the reality that they know and they think that's the way to get what they want, and that behavior just keeps going. And then they attract women who, for whatever need they have to try and fix these men., and then the thing starts again. And I'm so proud of my two brothers, who are three years and four years younger than me. They're in long term relationships. My dad was a serial, and didn't understand long term relationships, just didn't do that. And my brothers are in long term relationships that they, you know, come up for 20 years. They have two children, both have two children with the same women. My dad didn't do that, my dad has eight, there's eight of us with I forget how many women and my brothers haven't repeated that behavior. And I'm so proud of that. And I think that's down to my mum. It certainly wasn't down to my dad, he wasn't there. And certainly the values that she, despite what she was going through, that she tried to instill into us are her legacy.
Adrienne MacIain 11:29 Yeah. Do you, looking back, do you understand why she didn't just leave? Jenni Harris 11:37 Oh, yeah, a hundred percent. I'm a grown up now. So I know that, well, first of all, I know, I understand that there are some, I think the number, don't quote me on this, but there's a horrendous statistic that women, by the time they reach out for help, there's been around 37 incidents that have taken place before they reach out for help. And that's now, that's in the 20s to the 21st century. I'm talking about back in 1970s, when this was happening to my mum, where was she going to reach out for help? Nobody helped. And the domestic violence policies and stuff in policing, and within organizations now that are there to support women, were not there back then. You know, women were almost seen, and it just grieves me, were almost seen as property. If you are with a man, you are his property, so he can do pretty much what he wanted. And the wording was it's a "domestic," it's what happens with between a man and a wife, that's not going to be asked to get involved in. And I'm so glad it's changed, I'm so glad that we've evolved, and that we, that women now have the support. But even with all the support, there are still women who just, I don't know what it is, but they just, it takes time, it takes that time. And like you say it's when they actually made that decision to go, that's just day one. There's so much space that they need to get to, to heal, and that's where my retreat is gonna come in. Adrienne MacIain 13:35 Yeah. So when did the tide kind of turn in your family? When did things start to change? Jenni Harris 13:47 When my mum left. So I can remember the date and the day as if it was yesterday. So it was Friday, the fourth of January, 1974. Adrienne MacIain 14:02 Wow. Jenni Harris 14:02 When my mum took probably the beating of her life. My dad chased her from the house, she tried to get away, and he chased her from the house. We were in, me my brothers were in the house. He chased her out of the house and then the next thing I remember is seeing an ambulance coming, hearing the sirens coming and realizing it was coming for my mum. So yeah, so she went to hospital and she was there for a few days. And she made the decision then that he was going to kill her, so she had to, you know, do that. And she was worried about the kids, she was worried that if he couldn't get her then he would turn on us. And to be fair, my dad never did, he never did hit any of us. I certainly don't remember him doing that, he didn't seem to, he just didn't. But I think my mum genuinely feared after that, that if he couldn't get to her it would be, so that was the turning point for her. Adrienne MacIain 15:16 Or that if you tried to protect her, you could get hurt? I mean, there's a lot of different things that can happen there. Absolutely. So it sounds like that rock bottom point was also the turning point for you, because it was this breaking point where she decided that, you know, that's all I can stand. Jenni Harris 15:36 Yeah, and that kind of thing. I also, it didn't stop there, though, because we had to stay in the house. So even though they were separated, and then were living separate lives within the house, he would still come and show up and just hit her for fun. So I, for me, in terms of my turning point, I remember age 10, saying that to my mum, out of the mouth of babes, that I was never going to get married. Ever. And I also remember when I was about 15, saying that I was never going to have children, because by the time I got to 15 my mum was struggling. She was struggling financially, she was on her own. My mum was older than my dad as well, she was 13 years older than my dad, and so, you know, things were bad. Again, you know, I'm going back to the 80s. Things were tricky, you know, getting a mortgage by yourself, and she was older, so that wasn't really an option. So things started for us when my parents separated, and then eventually, you know, went their separate ways. And money was a real issue for my mum. And I remember categorically saying that I would never have children unless I could afford to have them and give them what they needed. And I meant that, I really, really meant it until I met my husband. And it was you know, and you kind of, you know, life. These things happen in life and shape and form you as you go along that road. And I've been married for 23 years now. And yeah, my husband has never raised a hand to me. Adrienne MacIain 17:34 Good. So what has blocked you from sharing this story before now? Jenni Harris 17:44 I think, oh, that's a great question. I think there's a lot of shame. When my parents, both my parents are dead now, so my mother died in 2012 and my dad died in 2017. And there's been, there was a lot of shame, a lot of embarrassment, there was a lot of that a lot of, and off the back of that, you know, we had no money. And so the the kind of latter part of my childhood, going into teenage years before I left home, were tough, it wasn't easy. And I kind of think that people look at me and think, and probably wouldn't believe me, because they see where I am now, but they didn't know me then. And I think I've also been very good at hiding it because I was ashamed of where I'd come from. And I was also very frightened that those behaviors would show up in my own life, and I wouldn't know how to deal with them. So I didn't know, and so for a long time I didn't get really involved in serious relationships because I didn't want to go down that road. So there's been a lot of stuff that's kind of hung around for a while. Adrienne MacIain 19:21 So you mentioned that this kind of drove you to go into policing and then also to create this retreat. How else did it change you, growing up like that? Jenni Harris 19:33 So growing up, you know, I was very shy, so it really affected my confidence. And I remember there would be, you know, a huge fight between mum and dad in the night which would wake me up, but then I would have to go to school the next day and just pretend that nothing had happened. And who would you tell? And then also there was the embarrassment that people might have seen the police come to the house. So, you know, I was very shy, I kept myself to myself, because then I didn't have to say anything, and nobody would ask me anything. And so I was not a lonely child, but I did, I threw my energy into sport. I was very good at sport, because I didn't have to talk to anybody. I could just be good at that. And that was kind of a detractor, I guess, from what was really happening. Adrienne MacIain 20:38 Yeah. So a distraction, but also, I would think, a way to channel some of that energy. Jenni Harris 20:48 I was using it as a distraction, I think. Adrienne MacIain 20:51 Fair enough. Jenni Harris 20:51 When people are talking about how good I was in sport, they weren't asking me about home. Adrienne MacIain 20:56 Yeah, yeah. So what about now? How do you think it, how do you think it affects you now? Jenni Harris 21:08 I don't think it affects me now. I think I'm very, I think affects is probably not quite the right word, but it certainly, I am acutely aware, I guess, of people's behavior, so I'm very good at reading people. I'm very good. I am really good about reading situations, and I'm very good at keeping myself safe. So I, you know, as time went on, I could kind of, I could be out the door and at that telephone kiosk calling police before it escalated. And so now I am very good at reading people, very good at. But I'm also, in terms of, you know, even though my business is all about people, I know that I am still, not deeply mistrustful of people, but I keep people at arm's length. It takes me a bit of time to suss people out. Not that I can't suss them out, they need to show me who they are, because I don't always trust people. Adrienne MacIain 22:34 It's interesting. So on a recent episode with Arien Smith, we talked about your superpowers and how trauma can often kind of, not cause those superpowers, because trauma doesn't cause superpowers, but what it does is it it helps you realize that that that potential was there. It's this opportunity to say, Oh, I need this reserve, Oh, guess what, here it is, and to learn that you have these things within you. And so I find that really common that when someone has gone through this kind of trauma as a child, they get this superpower of being able to read the room and know when the energy's just even a little bit... Jenni Harris 23:20 Just a tiny bit. Like, I can pick that up. Very, yeah. And the thing is, it's kept me safe in policing. So, you know, people have said to me, how did you talk your way out of that? And it's because I went in and nipped it in the bud before it escalated. So yeah, I think I, even when I was very young in policing and we still used to go out and do lot of socializing, you know, I could walk into somewhere and know that this was not a good place to be. And I could immediately turn around and leave. And sometimes it's not always great, because, you know, some of my friends who weren't police officers could not feel it. They would get like, Well, it feels great in here. And then I'd be like, No, no, I need to go. And sometimes I also wished I lived in their world where I didn't see this stuff, or figure it out before everyone else did, but then I also trusted my gut 99% of the time to keep me safe. I didn't always use it to make the right decisions, but it certainly keeps me safe. I can pretty much do that. Adrienne MacIain 24:33 Yeah, it's a funny thing. So you just reminded me of something that happened recently. Next door, they moved out, and so the house is up for sale. And there's all these people that come through to look at the house and things. And one day I was outside with my two girls, and then I saw this guy drive up and I just got this feeling immediately, there was something about the look on his face, something about the way he was driving, and I was, like, girls, get inside. They were, like, why? And I was, like, just get inside, okay, we'll talk about it later. And the guy gets out, slams the door, and he walks up, and he's banging on the door. And I'm, like, I don't know what's going on over here, but not good things. Right? Not good things. So I went inside, but it's just so funny how, you know, it was, he just drove up. He hadn't done anything yet. I just knew. And I think part of that is just intuition, but I think it's really people who have been in situations where there's a lot of volatile emotions, and those volatile emotions can be life threatening. Man, are you attuned to those little temperature changes! So that's really interesting. So the next question I have is, who needs to hear it? Who needs to hear this? Jenni Harris 25:54 That's a good question you asked there. Who needs to hear it? I don't know. I think... I don't know. I don't know. We've all got a story to tell. And I love that quote, where your survival, your story can become somebody's survival story. And so you must share it, you must tell it. But I, you know, I guess I don't know. I guess it's all why I've never said it, because it brings up emotions I don't necessarily like, I don't necessarily like being vulnerable. And I don't necessarily like the fact that people know where I've come from, and how challenging and difficult that was. But in the same breath, not that I would ever advocate this as somewhere to find strength, but I definitely feel that that circumstance and that journey gave me a lot of strength. I definitely know what I like and what I won't tolerate. So there's you know, it kind of, I guess it's shaped it very early. Some people don't quite recognize it for a little while. I knew from a very, very, very early age what it should look like, what I'd like my home life to look like. So who needs to hear this? I think anybody who? Who? I know, I don't know, I it's weird, I don't know.
Adrienne MacIain 27:48 That's totally fair. That's totally fair. So the next question is, what's the main message or takeaway? Jenni Harris 27:57 The main message and takeaway from, I guess, from this is that it doesn't matter where you come from, or where you started, I guess that's my base, my message. No matter where you come from, where you started, you are in charge of where you go. You are the author of your own story. So whatever that beginning looked like, however uncomfortable that beginning was, however traumatic it was, every day we have the opportunity to write our own story. And if we don't like a particular chapter, we just write a new one. So it doesn't matter. No. The takeaway is it doesn't have to be doesn't have to define you. It doesn't have to define you. So, that's the takeaway. My beginning was not great, I certainly, my children, I wouldn't want it for them. They didn't have that beginning. But everything happens for a reason I and I like that quote, but I don't always like the horrible stuff that comes with it. But I definitely, you know, would I have been the strong enough character to have gone into policing had I not got that backstory? Probably not, probably not. Would I have had the understanding and empathy for victims and people who are suffering trauma had I not got that backstory? Probably not. So everything does happen for a reason. And I'm the person I am today, as a result of it.
Adrienne MacIain 29:50 So that's such a beautiful segue. But I do want to go back to something that you said in there because I think you've answered the question of who needs to hear this: it's anyone who is struggling with feeling like their past defines them. Unknown Speaker 30:07 Okay. Adrienne MacIain 30:07 Right? So your story is for anyone who's feeling like, Oh, well, I came from this place, and I had this trauma and you know that is who I am. And so your messages is no, it's not. Jenni Harris 30:22 It's not. Absolutely not. Definitely. Adrienne MacIain 30:25 So, the next part is the fun part. You've segued so beautifully into it. So I want you to close your eyes for a moment. I am waving a magic wand, okay, and all your dreams have now come true. Everything that you desire so deeply, you have it, it is here now. So I want you to look around your life, and describe it for me. What do you see in this beautiful ideal existence around you? Jenni Harris 30:57 Oh, a beach! Adrienne MacIain 31:00 Yes, let's start there. Jenni Harris 31:02 Let's start with a beach. My perfect ideal life. My children are happy. I have grandchildren. I live in a big house with lots of noise and joy and people having fun. And not having, you know, no concerns around money at all. I can do, be, and have what I want, and help even more people to be, do, and have. And then obviously, built beautifully is this fabulous retreat, full of women who are on that journey to be the best version of themselves. Adrienne MacIain 31:47 Absolutely. So I want you to just really revel in that feeling for a moment. You're on this beach, and you can breathe in that sea air. Smell that. You can hear the birds calling. You hear the waves laughing. And just feel what that feels like, to know that everyone you care about is taken care of. They're safe. They have everything they need. You just you have so much abundance, and you're creating so much meaning, and really helping these people who need your help. And just feel that for a moment. Now is there a piece of music that feels the way that feels to you? Jenni Harris 32:48 It's usually the kind of, I like the music that you use for meditation, like waves and that's what that is for me. Adrienne MacIain 32:57 Beautiful. So, what I want you to do is we're gonna go on to the exercise, but I just want to say, I want you to get that picture of the beach, whatever that is, find that on the internet or wherever you can. And every day, I want you to listen to some sounds of the waves or some music that really is relaxing, and just look at that for a moment and feel that feeling again, just for like, 15 seconds. Okay? Jenni Harris 33:26 I do that anyway. Adrienne MacIain 33:27 I bet you do! Jenni Harris 33:29 I do that anyway. Adrienne MacIain 33:30 Wonderful, wonderful. Jenni Harris 33:31 It's so important to put that feeling into that. Adrienne MacIain 33:37 But now we're going to go a step further, because I know you're a planner. And I know you like to have a map and a path. So I want you, you're sitting here on your beach, I want you to think back to your memory from this place, what was the step that happens just before this? Were you building the retreat center? What was it that you were working on just before this beautiful moment here? What had to happen so that you could have this beautiful moment? Jenni Harris 34:12 Do you want me tell you? Oh, okay. So, my current my, business that I'm building and growing now, that needs to be producing all the finances, and then I kind of want to collaborate with four or five people to put this thing together so it's not just, you know, people with the same vision, wanting to create the same thing. And it may well be, you know, a therapist or somebody who has that big goal of wanting to create this space, and then invest in it. So yeah. Adrienne MacIain 34:55 Beautiful. Yeah. So I imagine you are very proactive, so you're probably already searching for those collaborators? Jenni Harris 35:02 I am, yes. Definitely, definitely, always looking, but yes. Adrienne MacIain 35:09 Beautiful. So let's just put that out into the universe, we're gonna do a little, what I call a gratitude-in-advance prayer. Which is we're just going to say thank you, thank you, universe, God, whatever we call you, thank you so much for these collaborators who are going to hear this, and who are going to come to Jenni, and say I want to work with you. Thank you so much for that. That is going to bring so much goodness into the world. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Jenni Harris 35:44 Thank you, thank you, thank you. Adrienne MacIain 35:49 All right. Is there anything else you want the audience to know, before you tell them how to find you? Jenni Harris 35:59 Anything else I also want them to know, what, about me or what I do, or...? Adrienne MacIain 36:06 Anything you want them to know. Jenni Harris 36:08 Okay, so, I run a business. So my business is all about nutrition, and all about feeling the best way you could possibly feel every single day. So, as a breast cancer survivor, it was really important to me, that nutrition, and to feed my body. My treatment was horrendous. It was awful. It was aggressive. But it needed to be that way for me to survive and come out the other end. And to thrive, I had to flood my body with amazing nutrition, so that's what I do now. And part of that is, so I have two parts of my business, I have happy, happy customers who are quite happy taking the products, I also have people who take the products and decide they want to share it and build and grow a business just like me. So that's what I'm looking for right now. So if you think or you are looking for something where you want to just make a difference, not only to your life, and your family's life, but you want to build a financial wall, a security blanket around your family, particularly in these awful times, then I'm looking for motivated, enthusiastic, ambitious women who would love to partner with me, and I'd love to partner with them. They don't need to have any skills, they just need to be ambitious and have a can-do attitude. So if that's you, and you just want to, you know, you can build whatever finances you want, but you've got to be prepared to work for it. It is not a get-rich-quick scheme, nothing like that. It is a real business with real skills, you know, we'll teach you everything you need to know. So yeah, that's it. I'm looking for you, because I know you're looking for me. Adrienne MacIain 37:59 Fantastic. So where can they find you? Jenni Harris 38:03 They can find me on Facebook. So, if you type in Jenni Harris, so J-E double N, I, Harris, you can find me. My profile is public, so you'll be able to find me. Send me a message and tell me where you where you saw me. That'd be great. Or I'm on LinkedIn. But what I will do is I will send you my link tree at Link. You can email me, it's firstname.lastname@example.org. Or my website, which is jenniharris.com. Adrienne MacIain 38:38 Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining me today. Jenni Harris 38:42 Thank you, it's been absolute joy and pleasure. I'm not sure that all it was joy, you know, sharing, being completely vulnerable. But it's nice. It's nice, because sometimes I'm sure there's been some cellular healing that's just happened. Adrienne MacIain 38:59 I really believe, you know, I think everything's relative, right? So you cannot have joy without pain. It's not possible. And so part of why I do this is to bring people through that and then up out of it again, to show Hey, it's okay to have that pain. That pain is part of who you are. But you don't have to sit in it, you don't have to stay in it.
Jenni Harris 39:19 I don't stink in it and wallow in it, I don't do that. But it's really important to understand that where you come from doesn't mean you have to stay there. And I see so much of that, I see so much of that in policing, in society. But people have had an awful start, it's been awful, it couldn't have been any worse. But unfortunately they just stay in that space, because they don't believe that they, but they don't feel they have the skills or the network or support to move out of that space. You have to have courage to pick yourself up, dust yourself down, and decide that Actually, no, that space is not where I want to be. I want to be over there in that fabulous space. Adrienne MacIain 40:13 Absolutely. Yeah. I think a lot of people are waiting for permission. They're waiting for someone to tell them No, it's okay to let go of that limiting belief, it's okay to let go of that past, you're invited to the rest of society now. I think you got to get out of that waiting space and just give yourself permission. Takes time.
Jenni Harris 40:37 But some people just don't have the tools. And if you are, if you're not around people that can help you think that way I think sometimes it's really hard, because that is your reality, and everybody around you is the same. Then it almost feels like, you know, you know that that story they talk about: you put a load of frogs in a bucket, and the ones are trying to get out and the rest are pulling them back in. And that can be the case for a lot of people, you know. I see with criminal families, where, you know, the children grew and they're the parents of criminals and generations of criminals. And you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that that young person wants to be in it, they just don't know anybody else. Because our whole network is the same. And they don't, where do they go? Where do they find those people that are going to help them to escape that family, and they don't to be on their own? They don't want to be ostracized. So it just, they just stay there and stay there. It's just not cool. Adrienne MacIain 41:46 Yeah. And like you say, not only do they not know anyone else, they don't know anything else. They don't have anything to compare this to. But it's really hard to envision something that you just have no model for. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's why it's really important for us to mentor people. Jenni Harris 42:07 Absolutely. Adrienne MacIain 42:08 To look for people who, you know, need a little boost out of the situation that they're in. Jenni Harris 42:14 Absolutely. Domestic violence is no different. For some women, if that's what they've seen, if that's what they've grown up with, they think that that's normal behavior. And it's not until somebody says, or they're around people who are, well, No, that doesn't happen in my house, that's not normal to me, No, that's not normal. Until they hear that enough, and see, and even. You know, domestic violence is not exclusive to any demographic of people, it goes across the whole spectrum of people and women and men included. And it's not until sometimes, you say they need that permission or courage or whatever that thing is, to think Okay, I need to, this is not going to work, I've got to go. So yeah, we need that, we need to mentor, definitely to support, definitely need to fill ourselves up so much that we're overflowing and we can help so many more people. Adrienne MacIain 42:14 Absolutely. All right. Thanks for listening, everyone. Jenni Harris 43:31 Take care everyone. Thanks for listening. Bye! Adrienne MacIain 43:33 Bye!